Charlie Moroze (Addictd)

# Guest Info

Anav Agrawal. 19, Toronto, Canada.

The arc, in order:

Numbers

The through-line for this episode: he built a real business without ever appearing in it, and the only thing it has not bought him is his parents' approval. Mechanism and family conflict in one guest, which nothing in the research set combines.

Filming: Wed July 29, 2026

# Brainstorm

Ranked. Angle 1 is the recommended spine of the episode, the others are segments that hang off it. All proof pulled from Velio, last 6 months, YouTube Creator Podcasts folder plus the global database.

# Titles

# Thumbnails

# Questions

[page: Transcript — Anav Agarwal]

# Addictd.ai integration

Scan one of his videos, his most popular video

# Gift

The Degree.

A physical diploma. Heavy cotton paper, proper black diploma frame. Conferred not by his university but by his own body of work.

Draft wording:

Why it works: his entire conflict with his parents comes down to a piece of paper. The objection is not the money, he is already out-earning the degree. It is that he has nothing to show for it. So Charlie hands him a piece of paper.

Handoff line is short, something in the range of "show them that." Nothing more. Let the silence do the work.

Execution rule: if it reads as mocking his parents, the moment dies on camera. Earnest, not a gag.

Build:

# Hook + Edit Notes

HOOK

[INTRIGUE CLIP / PAYOFF]

CLIP (Anav): The most amount of money I've made, which is completely profit, is around 30k from YouTube shorts. Just off one channel.

[SOCIAL PROOF]

VO (Charlie): This is Anav Agarwal. He's 19 years old, a university dropout, and he built all of it without ever showing his face.

CLIP (Anav): I spent zero dollars to actually make my first 50k from YouTube.

[CONTEXT]

VO (Charlie): And he can do it on command, because he has already started over from nothing and watched it hit.

CLIP (Anav): I actually started a brand new channel about two weeks ago. One of my videos is already at 10 million views, and that video is still pushing.

CLIP (Anav): I think I can blow up a new channel in around less than a month, get it monetized, and start earning money.

[SETUP]

VO (Charlie): In this episode he breaks down exactly how. v he uses to pull millions of views without ever picking up a camera,

CLIP (Anav): You basically find a faceless niche.

VO (Charlie): and why almost none of it worked at first.

CLIP (Anav): I've posted over 150 videos in a row that did not break out of 30k views.

[STAKES / CLOSE]

VO (Charlie): And he built all of it while the people closest to him were sure it would fail.

CLIP (Anav): at the time, like, I'm gonna be a millionaire. And everyone laughed at me.

CLIP (Anav): It is heart-wrenching sometimes, you know, your own parents don't believe in you.

(hard cut, into the episode)

CUT: pre-roll last-name banter and the "we're about to roll / better roll / we're filming" chatter (0:00:41–0:01:36); the standard "tell the world who you are" credential intro (those live in the hook); the off-camera favorited / clip-money / carousel partnership talk (~1:00:15–1:13:11); the Devin Seenath "devil horns / NDA" gossip aside (0:45:27–0:46:22); the mic and take-length check at the very end (1:51:34–1:51:46). The welcome (section 2) survives the cut.

# Description

[CTA / LINK]

Nineteen-year-old Anav Agrawal built a real income from YouTube Shorts without ever showing his face, and on this episode of ATTENTN he breaks down exactly how. He runs multiple faceless automation channels, and he explains the system behind them, what the AI actually does, what still has to be him, and why almost none of it worked across his first 150 videos. He walks through making roughly 30 thousand dollars a month, spinning up a brand new channel that hit 10 million views in two weeks, and how he would start over from zero today. Underneath the numbers is the harder story, a college dropout in Toronto whose own parents were sure he would fail. It is a candid look at faceless YouTube automation, building a business young, and what it costs to bet on yourself.

# Guest Info

Joe Sbiti. Based just outside London, flying in and staying with the team for a couple of weeks. One of the original YouTube Shorts growth guys, and the founder of Social Growth.

Charlie's brief: good dude, knows the Shorts automation world and how to scale Discord communities. Two years ago he was doing hundreds of thousands of views per Short. He now averages roughly 5K to 8K.

The arc, in order:

Numbers

⚠️ Timeline correction worth having in the room. The brief frames him as an original from a while back, but the long-form channel is only three years old and its peak was early 2025, roughly eighteen months ago. Do not say "two years ago" on tape until he confirms which era he means. The Shorts channels predate the long-form one and we have no links to them — ask him for the handles.

⚠️ Course pricing and student count are unverified. The Whop listing is fetchable but returns no price or member figure. Everything about what Social Growth earned is his claim, on tape only.

Filmed Aug 7, 2026. The decline was never asked about on camera. Section 6 of the questions, "The drop," did not happen. Everything downstream on this page, titles, thumbnails, hook and edit order, is built off what was actually said.

The through-line for this episode: he taught 26,000 people how to grow on Shorts, and he will not show a single channel he runs, because the last page he showed publicly was cloned a thousand times.

# Brainstorm

Ranked. Angle 1 is the recommended spine, the rest are segments hanging off it. Proof pulled from Velio.

# Titles

Chosen angle: the operator who teaches everyone and shows no one. Rebuilt from the filmed tape. The pre-film spine, the view collapse, is not in the episode: the drop was never asked about on camera, so no arm rests on it.

Bench 1, the swap to reach for first. Shorts Expert: How to Find a Winning Niche and Go Viral Instantly! The tape is unusually skill-heavy, so the how-to template fits the episode better than the transfer template does. The two overlap and cannot both run.

Bench 2. I Asked The Guy Who Taught 26,000 People To Grow On Shorts. "I Asked" outperforms "Interview with" by 173x versus sub-1x, and the claim leads while the name stays off.

Bench 3. He Grew A Shorts Page For 150 Days (Realistic Results). Duration framing is the top signal class in the dataset, and the parenthetical is lifted from his own best package: "I Tried YouTube Shorts For 30 Days (Realistic Results)", 216K views, 34.4x, Jan 19, 2025.

On the precise-number rule. Precise odd figures beat round ones, but he never gives one. On tape it is "17 or $20,000, something like that," then "it was like $20,000." Round is the honest number here.

# Thumbnails

Idea 1 — face left, text right. Four options, two to four words each. Each one supports a title without repeating it, and each reads as the whole video at a glance.

Idea 2 — the wall of clones

# Questions

# Addictd.ai integration (placed in the questions)

The trio, already pinned (all his, all on @joesbiti):

What actually ran on camera. The three-video ranking game did not happen. They ran the tool on one video, his 150-day Shorts upload, and he compared the read against his own YouTube Studio chart live: "it's literally within, like, a 10% radius for pretty much the whole video." He read out both flags, agreed with the first fix, called the second a fair retention-for-engagement trade, and pointed out that the written English in the fix was off. He then asked for a feature: have the tool also say why a video worked, not only where it broke. That request is the most useful thing in the segment and it is a clip.

# Gift

A UK plug adapter

Cheap joke object about flying 5,000 miles to plug into someone else's setup. Build cost near zero, lead time same-day.

Alts:

# Hook + Edit Notes

HOOK

CLIP (Joe): I kid you not, there was like 1,000 clones of my page. So that's why you gatekeep your pages.

[SOCIAL PROOF]

VO (Charlie): This is Joe Sbiti. He has taught hundreds of thousands of people how to grow on YouTube Shorts, but keeps every channel he has secret.

CLIP (Joe): I've grown faceless channels to hundreds of thousands of subscribers. I've grown my own channel to almost 100,000 subscribers. I've grown multiple TikToks to hundreds of thousand subscribers.

[CONTEXT]

VO (Charlie): So he proved it a different way, by building a brand new page from nothing with one rule.

CLIP (Joe): The rules were that we couldn't spend any money until we were profitable.

CLIP (Joe): But yeah, it was like $20,000. Not bad for one page.

[SETUP]

VO (Charlie): In this episode he gives the whole thing away. How he spots a niche that is still making money before anyone else finds it,

CLIP (Joe): If there's a channel that's getting a lot of views and they don't have many subs, it's a good sign.

VO (Charlie): and the trick he plants halfway through a video to stop people swiping away.

CLIP (Joe): I then have the sound effect, and I then give them something that they're not expecting.

[STAKES / CLOSE]

VO (Charlie): And the co-host sitting across from him learned from his videos, years ago.

CLIP (Alex): You're actually one of the first channels I came across when getting into YouTube Shorts automation.

CLIP (Joe): I guess sometimes I almost, I don't know, maybe underestimate how much reach I have.

(cut, into the episode)

Front-load the material that pays the arms, default to conversation order, welcome opens, CTA at 30 to 40 percent, one held payoff (the re-hook, promised in the hook), hard claim in the back half, emotional close. No gift segment exists on tape.

CUT: all pre-roll framing and centering chatter, the clap sync, the name pronunciation attempts and the banter around them; the low power mode, password and phone logistics; every re-roll and retake, including Charlie's restarted welcomes and Alex's repeated co-host intros; the Adam22 tangent; all on-camera coaching ("don't just go straight into the next question," "that's a clip question," "be more reactionary"); the laptop versus iPad staging debate and the Discord link-sending; the Viraj page banter and his view-count chatter; "we're not really rolling right now, are we?"; and the wrap-up chatter after "Thanks for having me." The standard credential intro goes too, those numbers live in the hook. The welcome survives.

Notes for review: (a) the CTA lands at roughly 39 percent, inside the band, on the strongest bridge in the episode. (b) The pre-film spine, the view collapse, never happens on camera. Section 6 of the question doc, "The drop," was never asked, so titles, thumbnails and hook were all rebuilt off what was actually said. (c) No gift was given on tape.

# Notes

# Description

[CTA / LINK]

We're sitting down with Joe Sbiti, the Shorts growth expert who taught thousands of creators how to blow up on YouTube and still won't show a single channel he owns, because the last one he showed got cloned a thousand times.

He's walking us through how he spots a niche before anyone else finds it, the mid video trick he uses to stop people from swiping away, and how he built his 26,000 member Discord community from nothing. We're also running an AI retention tool live against his own YouTube Studio numbers.

By the end, one of our own hosts is telling him he learned Shorts from his videos years ago, and Joe is finding out just how far his reach actually went.

# Guest Info

Sam Chaban. 18. Paid-ads marketer for D2C consumer brands. Built and sold his first agency, now building his second.

The arc, confirmed on tape:

Numbers (Comfrt, verified, Virlo case study: virlo.ai/blog/how-comfrt-grew-on-tiktok-2026)

# Brainstorm

The through-line for this episode: everyone on this show controls attention to get views. Sam controls attention to move money.

Ranked. Angle 1 is the recommended spine, the others are segments that hang off it. Proof pulled from Velio global database.

# Titles

# Thumbnails

Idea 1 — face left, text right

Idea 2 — overhead ad account

# Questions

# Addictd.ai integration

Two Comfrt ads pulled from the Meta Ads Library, both still running, meaning Comfrt is paying for both today.

# Gift

# Hook + Edit Notes

HOOK

CLIP (Sam) [25:34]: "When it comes to raising your prices, you need to raise the perceived value of actually wearing and living your life with a product."

[SOCIAL PROOF]

VO (Charlie): This is Sam Chaban. He is 18 years old, and he has made brands tens of millions of dollars from ads.”

CLIP (Sam) [10:39]: "I've generated more than 50 million dollars in four years. So I think I have the data on my back end to back that up."

[CONTEXT]

VO (Charlie): And he is convinced almost none of it comes down to budget, because to him one thing decides whether you buy.

CLIP (Sam) [10:15]: "the [censor “creative”] is key. No matter how bad your copy is, the website, the pricing, if the creative is ahead of its time, you will perform."

[SETUP]

VO (Charlie): In this episode he breaks down why the ads you scroll past are worth millions

CLIP (Sam) [27:29]: "If something works organically, if you post something and it goes viral, it's almost certainly going to work as a paid advertisement."

VO (Charlie): and how he would build a brand from zero all over again, knowing everything he knows now.

CLIP (Sam) [54:58]: "The first thing in e-commerce is product market fit. Then positioning. Why should people buy from you? And once we get that idea, it's straight to the ad creatives."

(hard cut, into the episode)

Build notes

Rules applied: front-load the $50M / why-you-buy material, default to conversation order, welcome opens, CTA (the Addictd.ai product demo / "the Scan") placed on its natural bridge, one held payoff (the blank-slate rebuild, promised in the hook), hardest claim in the back half, emotional close, gift last if one exists.

CUT: pre-roll table/reservation small talk (00:00–00:53), the "testing testing" audio and cam check (00:53–01:14), the last-name pronunciation and "be yourself" coaching (01:14–01:58), all the "we're rolling / cut to the wide cam" production chatter around the demo setup (32:47–34:42, 52:43–53:28), and the post-outro small talk about photos (67:14–end). The welcome (02:01) stays.

# Description

[CTA / LINK]

Paid ads expert Sam Chaban sits down with ATTENTN to explain what actually makes people buy. At 18 he has generated more than 50 million dollars running Meta ads for e-commerce and apparel brands, and he argues the ad creative, not the budget, is what decides whether a stranger converts. He breaks down the psychology of perceived value and why shoppers pay a premium for a product they have never touched, how organic content that goes viral becomes a winning paid advertisement, the pricing model behind a six-figure-a-month agency, and how he would rebuild a brand from zero today knowing everything he knows now. It is a tactical look at performance marketing, ad creative, and consumer psychology from one of the youngest media buyers in the game.

# Transcript

Blake-edited transcript, do not regenerate.

[page: Transcript — Sam (Comfrt)]

# Concept

Three college dropouts who built companies, against ten people who did not drop out. Charlie, Alex and Nate on one side, ten grads and current students on the other.

Not a school debate. It is an entrepreneurship debate that happens to be split down the degree line. Every prompt is about starting a business, taking the risk, and who actually gets to.

Charlie and Alex left UChicago with a job offer on the table. Nate left Michigan State and worked jobs for two years before the agency. None of them failed out and none of them had nothing to lose. They walked away from the exact thing everyone in that room is still paying for.

CTA: Addictd.

# Setup

Anyone can take the chair. Nothing is assigned. Whoever wants the prompt gets up, same as the other side.

One founder in the seat at a time, and they can tap out mid-prompt and hand it to one of the others. That way you get all three across the day without three people talking over each other, which is the only version an editor cannot cut.

Whoever sits says their name first so the editor has it.

They have to split on at least two prompts. Agree which ones privately and never tell the room.

The room. Ten people behind the line, each holding a red flag. One empty seat facing them.

Each prompt.

Run 7 to 10 minutes per prompt. Multiple people per prompt is fine.

Pick 12 before the day. There are 17 below, in order. The bottom five are spares for when one dies in ninety seconds.

The moments are built into the prompts. Run four of them across the day, no more, or it stops feeling real.

Ask, never accuse. The second one of them tells the room what kind of people they are, the room turns and the edit cannot save it. Every moment is a question and the answer is the clip. Do not do a bank balance reveal.

Lines marked Nate are his and only his. They are his family, his employee, his numbers. Charlie and Alex need their own version of the same thing or they should leave that prompt alone.

# Prompts

# Hook + Edit Notes

REFERENCE: 9-5 Workers Confront an Online Millionaire — Brez, 1.83M on a 176K median. Watch the first thirty seconds before reading anything below.

The transcript supplied has no timecodes, so each line below is anchored by who says it and which seat it comes from. Everything is verbatim.

0:00 to 0:30

"I can tell neither of you guys go out and have fun." (Rob, first seat)

"Like, do you guys have friends, bro? Like, real shit, do you guys have friends?" (Rob, first seat)

Stay on Chuck's face through both lines. Do not cut to Rob.

"I'm a fucking dumbass, dude. I don't know shit." (Chuck, Race's seat)

"Every person you've met is in their 20s making seven figures? That's a straight cap." (Rob, first seat)

"Are you guys lurking, or is this for real?" (room, first seat)

"I spent, like, over $180,000 for that year and a half at that school." (Chuck, Michael's seat)

Hold on Chuck for the whole line.

"I sent out ten thousand emails to ten thousand different creators." (Chuck, Michael's seat)

"People don't see the nine thousand nine hundred and ninety-nine other emails that got ghosted." (Chuck, Michael's seat)

"Raise your hand if you were cheating on tests with AI." (Chuck, second seat)

Cut wide the frame the hands go up.

"Have you ever done a deal? Executed a deal? Do you even know what that means?" (Chuck, second seat)

"When I was 14, I used to sell Clash Royale courses." (second seat)

"On God, I'm calling my mom right now." (Rob, final seat)

"I'm dropping out of this shit. I can't do it anymore." (Rob, on the phone)

"No, you guys are drinking, like, raspberry lemon drop martinis, bro." (Rob, first seat)

Hard cut out of the laugh.

Chuck from the very top of the shoot:

"We dropped out of college and raised $850,000 for our startup, and today we're debating 10 college students."

Then straight into section 1.

Shot order, with one lift. Rob opens the video arguing a job is the safe option and closes it calling his mother to drop out, so the arc is already in the tape and moving anything breaks the callbacks.

The longest seat of the day and the one that sets everything up. Keep the whole spine: Rob's eighty-thousand-a-year hypothetical with a wife and kids, Chuck's answer that a job means somebody else holds the switch, and then the Morgan Stanley beat, which is the credibility the rest of the video runs on. "I literally had the $200,000 guaranteed job at Morgan Stanley, and then I woke up and realised that $200,000 isn't shit." Keep the people at the firm calling him to say they wish they had the balls. Keep "what feels safe today is actually way more dangerous today than it could be tomorrow." Then the turn, where Rob stops arguing policy and goes after them personally: the friends line, the raspberry lemon drop martinis, and "that's a straight cap." Chuck concedes on tape here, "I mean, it's true, I do surround myself with people in the space," and that concession stays in.

Short and it earns its place on two beats only. The trap closing, "have you ever done a deal, executed a deal, do you even know what that means," answered with Clash Royale courses. And the AI hands, "raise your hand if you were cheating on tests with AI," which is the best visual in the video and the only pre-film moment that actually ran. Keep Chuck admitting he wrote his own essays with AI at UChicago.

The comic relief seat. Keep the degree exchange, "would you rather take advice from someone who learned business for four years or someone who did business for 20 years," answered with "does the guy who did 20 years have a degree? Yeah, his opinion's shit, dude." Keep the unk trips to Italy line. See the cut list for what goes from the front and back of this seat.

The best-argued seat in the room and where the CTA belongs. Michael is on scholarship, runs a business with his father, and is the only person who makes Chuck give ground. Keep the whole cold email run: sitting alongside Jimmy Donaldson at sixteen, being the youngest person in the room, and then the answer that makes it teachable, ten thousand emails, nine thousand nine hundred and ninety-nine ghosted, thirty follow-ups before one reply, twenty colleges applied to and nineteen rejections. Keep the show of hands on who is paying their own tuition. Keep the $180,000 and "did I get anything out of it?" Above all keep Michael's line, "you also don't know what doors would've opened if you did stay," which is the sharpest thing anyone says to them all day, and keep Chuck's answer rather than cutting around it.

The personal trainer seat. Keep "in business, people don't care about certifications, they care about your quality of output," the point that a course is just condensed information, and Chuck landing on "I actually would encourage most people to go and at least try college just for the year to see how big of a waste it really is." That is a concession and it makes the video credible. Keep "we don't learn about content by taking the how to become a content creator UMiami course. We become content creators by filming content, sitting in studios like this," and cut to the room as he says it.

Ava is the only person who wins her seat outright. Keep the whole exchange about what the college experience actually is, the Raj story about the Airbnb in Virginia built off a construction loan, and "the college experience is just a simulation of the real world. It's made up." Then keep the ending exactly as it happened: Ava asks why not both, says her parents saved for it, and Chuck answers "I guess it's fine." Do not cut that. It is the moment the video stops being an argument and starts being watchable.

This is where the biggest concession in the video lives. Keep the credibility exchange in full: "I'd choose the person with the degree 100%," and Chuck answering "I actually agree. When I cold email somebody today, all I have to say is would love to chat, and they respond. Why? Because they see MrBeast on the resume. They see UChicago. I didn't even need to complete UChicago for them to be impressed by that." A dropout admitting the school's name is what opens the door is the most honest thirty seconds on the tape.

Keep Chuck saying plainly, "I'm not here to be a liar, to sit here and say college is a complete scam." Keep the group-project exchange and the answer, "I'd rather be getting a D on my paper than losing $100,000," against "losing 200 grand is actually kind of important, this stings, I don't wanna feel this pain again." Keep "nobody cares about grades."

The most generous person in the room and the seat that produces Chuck's best beat. Keep the fifteen-hundred-a-week statistic Race quotes. Keep all of Chuck's answer: "I'm a fucking dumbass, dude. I don't know shit. I'm not even that hardworking compared to a lot of folks." The SAT scores, being made fun of for them, being waitlisted at six schools and only getting off at UChicago, and being supposed to go to Wisconsin.

The payoff of the entire video. Keep Rob returning to the floor, "I know I talked and I was debating you guys, and it's all bullshit," the grandma-and-grandpa line about 401ks and retiring at 65, and the call itself. Then keep Chuck's answer straight after, "that's literally what happened to me too, my parents wanted to disown me when I told them I was dropping out," and Rob tying it back to the business he runs with his own mother. See the cut list. The setup for this beat must not survive.

The closer, and it closes on agreement rather than a win. Keep the Keno friends, the crypto outlier, and then the volume answer: six hundred applications, a hundred interviews, ninety-nine rejections, six rounds at Morgan Stanley. Keep the gym analogy. Keep Alex's own beat, hundreds of videos that never broke a thousand views before he read the analytics and scaled channels past a hundred million. Keep the Dillon Latham story, banned at four hundred thousand followers and rebuilt into an eight-figure haircare company. Then end exactly where the tape ends: "one time you will get lucky with enough reps," "I totally agree with that," "we're in agreement here."

CTA. No Addictd segment was filmed. Nothing on this tape demos the product or mentions it. The natural home is section 4, on the back of Chuck diagnosing Michael's actual situation on camera and telling him to go shadow somebody, which is the only place in the video where he is demonstrably right about a real person's real problem and roughly a third of the way in. If a segment gets shot, it attaches there.

Flagging these rather than removing them quietly. Every one is a real risk.

Every seat ends with the flags going up, so each debate is already a vertical with a scored ending. Eleven seats gives roughly twenty clips before the long form locks. Title each one with its prompt card.

The clips that travel are the ones where a normal-looking person says the indefensible thing out loud, not the ones where Chuck is most right. The four to cut first: the raspberry lemon drop martinis run, the Clash Royale courses answer, "his opinion's shit, dude," and Rob on the phone to his mother.

# Guest Info

Bennett Santora. Friend of the show, and one of the first people the team ever spoke to about the company. Just graduated Cornell. Runs a juggling business and a make-money-online channel at the same time, which is the whole hook.

Charlie's brief: comes from a New York City private school and talks openly about coming from money. Still lives off his parents while making his own money, and is open about that too. His organising idea is his FIRE number, the amount invested that means he never has to work again. He is moving here and wants to scale the juggling company.

The arc, in order:

Numbers

⚠️ The second Money Mind channel does not surface anywhere in our data. Only Money Mind Unfiltered at 74.8K is verifiable. The 200K cumulative figure is unconfirmed, so no title or description carries it until he says it on tape.

⚠️ The 26,000 Discord figure is the same number given for a different guest's community in a brief the same week. Worth confirming with him directly before anyone engraves it on anything or puts it in a title.

⚠️ flyjuggler.com now redirects to flyjuggling.com, and that site's metadata credits a different person. We cannot confirm from the outside which storefront is currently his. Ask him for the live link before any product is named on camera.

⚠️ Blastoff Media is live litigation. Public reporting: Downtown Music signed Blast Off Media as a distribution client in August 2025 and terminated roughly a month later; Blast Off sued for breach of contract and fraudulent inducement, claiming a catalogue valued at $200M to $300M and over 20,000 displaced YouTube creators. Downtown says it acted on terms-of-service violations. Nobody has been found liable of anything. Do not put an allegation, a loss figure, or the word scam in a question, in a title, or in a description. The questions on this page approach it only as an industry-vetting question with him as the expert, which is also the version that will actually get a good answer.

⚠️ Politics stay off. Charlie flagged his political views as not an ATTENTN topic and said he does not know how public Bennett wants to be. Not on the page, not in the room.

⚠️ Tone rule. He is a friend and he is generous about his own privilege without being asked. That earns him the generous version of every money question. He is the narrator of his own contradictions, never the defendant.

The through-line for this episode: he is the only person in the niche who is not chasing a hundred million dollar company. He won a world juggling title as a kid, he sells juggling balls, he teaches people to make money online, and the entire point of all of it is to hit one number and stop.

# Brainstorm

Ranked. Angle 1 is the recommended spine, the rest are segments hanging off it. Proof pulled from Velio.

# Titles

Rewritten Aug 31 2026. The old arms 1 and 2 both claimed a juggling title, which he never claims on tape and which he actively contradicts at [00:46:26]: "I probably wouldn't make the top 100 jugglers list even." The scale claim replaces the competitive claim because scale is what is actually true, it is in his own mouth at [01:53:58] ("if you include Snapchat, it's like over a million"), and it is the half of him that is interesting to this audience anyway. At [00:46:38] he puts it himself: "I'm probably like top one or like close to top one at least of like social media juggler."

⚠️ These three are written off the tape and the format, not off outlier proof. Velio hit its daily cap on Aug 31 before the title-skeleton hunt could run, so the identity-plus-quote shape, the never-work-again category and the follower-scale framing have NOT been proof-checked yet. Re-run the outlier pass after the quota resets and adjust the wording to whatever skeleton actually carries, before anything is locked.

# Questions

# Addictd.ai integration (placed in the questions)

The trio, already pinned (all his, all on @moneymindunfiltered):

# Gift

Filming is not booked yet and the cutoff is Aug 17, so there is real lead time on this one. Ranked.

Blake to kill the ones he does not want.

⚠️ Option 1 and option 2 are the two real candidates, and they point at different halves of the episode. Option 1 pays off the juggling arm and the identity title. Option 2 pays off the room section and the origin story. If both get made, they are the top and the tail of the episode.

# Notes

# Hook

The title arms were rewritten Aug 31 2026 to drop the championship claim, which he never makes on tape and openly contradicts. The arms are now built on follower scale instead, and the hook below pays all three off real tape. No clip in it claims a title or a competition win.

For the record so nobody re-adds it: Charlie asks him about his first juggling title directly at [00:44:37] and he answers the age half and skips the title half. The only competition results in his own mouth are sixth in combat juggling [00:49:06] and a second at SkillCon [00:50:49]. The 2017 IJA gold on this page came from outside research, not from him. It does not go on screen unless he confirms it on record.

HOOK (~40 sec)

[INTRIGUE CLIP / PAYOFF]

CLIP (Bennett): A life where I don't get to work again is one that I would never want to live. But a life where I don't have to work is aspirable.

[SOCIAL PROOF]

VO (Charlie): This is Bennett Santora. He's 22, he sells juggling balls to over a million followers, he built a money channel to 75,000 subscribers, and he has one number that lets him stop.

CLIP (Bennett): Mine is probably between three to four million.

[CONTEXT]

VO (Charlie): He is not guessing at that, because he has already worked out what it pays him every month for the rest of his life.

CLIP (Bennett): if I withdraw 3%, I would need 4 million, which would be enough for me to spend 10k a month inflation adjusted for the rest of my life.

CLIP (Bennett): So I would want to get to it by age 30.

[SETUP]

VO (Charlie): So he opens the dashboards and shows what the juggling company actually made,

CLIP (Bennett): you can see I was doing like $800 a month in sales.

VO (Charlie): and the one change that turned that into ten thousand a month.

CLIP (Bennett): I was like, what if I actually made videos like saying like buy these juggling balls and like made videos for jugglers?

[STAKES / CLOSE]

VO (Charlie): And the reason he wants out this badly is not the money, it is what he thinks happens to him if he fails.

CLIP (Bennett): if I was making no money and had no career prospect and no job and graduated college and was staying with my parents, like I would feel terrible.

CLIP (Bennett): You we gave you we paid for your college. We paid for all your living expenses and what job do you have? You have no job. You have nothing. Nothing.

(hard cut, into the episode)

Build notes

# Edit order

Rules applied: front-load what pays the title arms, default to conversation order, welcome opens, the Scan lands at 36%, one held payoff (the shame answer, which the hook opens and does not close), hard claims in the back half, emotional close last, gift closes.

CUT

Pre-roll, mic checks and the Discord hater bit [00:00:00]. The intro re-shoot and production housekeeping [00:12:20]. The cold DM segment and the hosts' own pitch [00:26:02], which is the show selling itself and does not belong in the episode. The break and banter around the juggling demo [01:34:36]. The Sandcastles workflow walkthrough [03:20:00]. The risk debate [02:05:37], which runs eleven minutes and never lands. Post-show banter and the live phone call bleeding into the tape [03:39:24]. Every "we're green", all coaching and retakes, and the "tell the world who you are" intro, since the credentials are in the hook.

# ⚠️ Legal and privacy, before anything ships

Blastoff Media, [03:33:43] to [03:38:14]. Cut the whole segment. It is the highest risk block in the episode and it is not close. He names OneFluent and Novial Music, asserts other music companies were non-compliant and got shut down, states the practice was against YouTube's policies, and describes the mechanic in detail, adding a song at fifteen percent volume that you cannot hear. His opening line is "anyone that's mad that the additional money that I was making them went away is dumb", which will not read well out of context. Charlie also puts a personal character vouch on the record. Blastoff is live litigation. None of this ships without Bennett and a lawyer both signing off, and the episode does not need it.

Earlier Blastoff mentions at [00:10:33] to [00:11:53], [00:30:47] and [01:11:16] are safer but still name it. The twenty five thousand dollar month receipt works on its own at [00:10:25] without the name attached, so use that one.

The "corn edition" segment, [01:51:27] to [01:53:26]. Cut. He describes a method involving reposting sexually explicit content to build pages. Separately, the hosts say on tape at [01:53:26] that they will re-cut it so it looks like they asked a different question, and tell the editor to put it in the hook as engagement bait. Do not execute that instruction. The plan to misrepresent the question is itself on tape.

TikTok ban and UFC, [03:26:44]. He names a real organisation in connection with a described black market method and a platform ban. Cut the naming, keep the thirty nine days.

Screen recordings. He pulls up live Shopify, TikTok Studio, RevenueCat and Discord at least eight times. At [00:35:33] there is an exchange about whether his home address was visible in a past video, and a Hinge notification appears on his screen at [00:34:55]. Every screen recorded segment needs a manual privacy scrub before it ships. This affects sections 11, 12, 14 and 18 of the edit order.

Named person shade, [02:50:37]. Oscar Owen ignoring his message. Light and he says no shame to the guy, but it names a real creator. Editor's call, low risk.

# Guest Info

Shawn, goes by shkeffy. Founder of shkeffy network, which republishes YouTubers' existing long-form videos onto Spotify as video podcasts and pays them monthly for it. Fully hands-off for the creator.

⚠️ Three corrections to the brief before anyone says them on camera.

Sourcing note. Everything below is from his own public posts and his own website. It is all self-reported and none of it is independently verified. Treat every number as his claim until he says it on tape.

The arc, in order (he posted this timeline himself on Jun 26, 2026):

The money, by his own dates

Scale of shkeffy network

The RPM claims (these are what will clip)

Why it works, in his words (Jul 17). YouTube pays off ads. Spotify pays a chunk out of premium subscription revenue based on how much premium users actually listen. "subscription money is just worth more than ad money." Free users still trigger ad revenue as normal, so it is additive.

Where he draws the line (Jun 29), and this is the credible bit. "spotify is not for everyone. if you're not already making money on youtube, you're not going to make money on spotify either... it will not save content nobody wants to watch."

The counterintuitive one. "8 out of our top 10 most viewed channels this month are minecraft creators alone." Gaming outperforms talk content on a talk platform.

How he actually got 400+ clients. Cold email, not content. "i've outreached to 8000+ YouTubers." ~400 emails/day and ~150 DMs/day, custom software built by @adenshepard. Referrals second, with an infinite referral deal, which is how he signed JudeLow and RoyalPear. He explicitly does not use Discord outreach. This is the single most useful segment for our audience.

⚠️ He hired a Twitter copywriter on Jul 2, 2026 ("i hired a copywriter for my twitter account to write my thoughts out, fyi"). Anything polished after that date may not be his voice. Do not quote July/August thought-leadership posts back to him as if he wrote them. The blunt early stuff is his.

The through-line for this episode: he started this at 16, almost nobody watching knows Spotify pays for video at all, and he is quietly the reason a music app is filling up with Minecraft videos.

# Brainstorm

Ranked. Angle 1 is the recommended spine, the rest are segments hanging off it.

Softest close available: Jun 28, 2026, "i love what i do man. i watched half my clients as a kid (and still do lol), and i get to chat with them and make them money. im never exiting." Pair with Mar 24: "it makes me lowkey kinda sad i never had a traditional childhood."

Open items to get on tape, none of these are public: the revenue split percentage (clients call it "the best split I've seen from a CMS"), what the one-page contract actually says, who owns the Spotify show if a creator leaves, real team size, and where he actually is against the $500k/month goal he set in May.

Churn check. He claims "never had a creator leave." The public roster has an entry literally called "brewstewfilms - depreciated" next to "brewstewfilms." Worth one question.

# Title targets (pre-film, superseded by Titles below)

Titles are locked AFTER filming, off the tape, per the standing rule. These are the three things the interview has to make him say so there is something to build arms from. If none of these land on camera, the title test has nothing to stand on.

Target A, the quote. Get "yeah, that's actually because of me" said out loud, in his own words, about Spotify filling up with YouTube videos. He already wrote it. Make him say it.

Target B, the number. The highest RPM one of his creators has hit, said as a figure, plus what that meant in dollars on a small view count. He has posted $225, and $500 from 2,000 views. Round numbers are fine, he does not give precise ones.

Target C, the obstacle. He has said he is banned on most payment platforms despite having an LLC and following the rules. Get him to say what actually happened and how the money reaches 442 creators anyway. Do NOT frame this as "banned for being 18" — see the correction in Guest Info.

Bench target: the two months locked out of his own account. Only becomes a title if he tells it with real detail.

# Questions

# Gift

Makeshift Spotify plaque with “Shkeffy” on it

# Addictd.ai integration (placed in the questions)

three of hxsain (his client, does $15k+/mo) shorts and show how to improve

youtube.com/@hxsain/shorts

# Titles

Locked off the filmed tape. Three arms, three different click psychologies.

Bench, first swap for arm 3: Spotify Expert: How to Get Paid Twice For Videos You Already Made! The tape is skill-heavy enough to earn the how-to arm.

The $250 is deliberately not a title arm. He says it [19:34] and it is real, but it is his record on a two to four hour video and he caps typical at "double to triple" a creator's YouTube rate in the same breath [19:50]. It is a strong moment inside the episode and a claim that would not survive being the promise on the thumbnail.

# Thumbnails

Idea 1 — face left, text right

Idea 2 — exotic concept

# Hook + Edit Notes

HOOK (~40 sec)

[INTRIGUE CLIP / PAYOFF]

CLIP (Shawn) [6:55]: "A client has never paid us a cent. We always pay clients. Either you get 75% of extra revenue, or you get 100% of nothing."

[SOCIAL PROOF]

VO (Charlie): "This is Shawn. He's eighteen years old, and the creators on his network get paid twice for videos they already made."

CLIP (Shawn) [50:24]: "Our biggest creator is named Hussein. He makes between 10 and 20k a month right now on Spotify."

[CONTEXT]

VO (Charlie): "None of them film anything new for it, because he just reposts what they already put on YouTube."

CLIP (Shawn) [4:33]: "It's like 430 to 460. We signed like 20 yesterday, five the day before. I'm not keeping track of it."

CLIP (Shawn) [51:35]: "Hussein is sitting at number 176 on Spotify overall. 4.9 stars, thousands of reviews."

[SETUP]

VO (Charlie): "In this episode he explains why the exact same video is worth more on a music app than it is on YouTube,"

CLIP (Shawn) [20:44]: "Ninety percent of Spotify's revenue comes from premium users. Only around ten percent comes from ads."

VO (Charlie): "and how he signed four hundred and fifty creators without ever posting about it."

CLIP (Shawn) [41:48]: "We've auto rejected two hundred thirty four thousand clients."

[STAKES / CLOSE]

VO (Charlie): "He built all of it after his first company died in a single day, when he was sixteen."

CLIP (Shawn) [14:25]: "That ended in February. A big music company got mad at us for doing this and shut us down."

CLIP (Shawn) [14:41]: "I went from making 30K in February to 4,000 in March."

CLIP (Shawn) [1:06:01]: "The only people that do well are people with big dreams and even bigger delusions."

(hard cut, into the episode)

Build notes

Rules applied: front-load the money and scale that pay the arms and the hook, default to conversation order otherwise, welcome opens and never gets cut, CTA placed on Shawn's own complaint about YouTube Studio, one held payoff (the cold email machine, promised in the hook), hardest claim in the back half, emotional close, gift last if it exists.

CUT: everything before the welcome, including the mic-height coaching, the "fist away from your mouth" run and the pre-roll line about YouTubers; both on-camera instructions to the editor to fact check the Spotify audio-ad claim [29:22] and Hussein's chart position [52:12]; the math flub and the "cut out this math" run [38:51]; the Chipotle and "I forgot the question" break [31:51]; the subscription-fatigue tangent [26:05]; the Vid Summit and travel-plans stretch [1:27:00]; the Odyssey and Batman loudest-scene tangent [1:29:56]; the restaurant, boat and jet ski small talk from [1:48:20] to the outro; and the method he says got his X account unbanned [1:46:44], which both hosts tell viewers not to copy and which is a monetization risk in any cut. The welcome stays.

# Transcript

[page: Transcript — Shawn Shkeffy]

# Guest Info

Drew Shaulson. Founder of Hyve, the founder network. Miami. info@thehyveapp.com

The arc, in order:

Numbers

The through-line for this episode: he sells access to a room and he is the least-followed person in it. His co-founders carry six-figure audiences. He carries under two thousand. The attention that fills Hyve is bought with ads he writes himself, and he is the one who posts the losses.

# Brainstorm

Ranked. Angle 1 is the recommended spine of the episode, the rest are segments that hang off it. All proof pulled from Velio.

# Titles

# Thumbnails

Idea 1, face left, text right. Drew's face on the left, block text on the right. Five options, all pulled from his own published words.

Idea 2, exotic concept.

# Questions

# Addictd.ai integration (placed in the questions)

Three of Drew's own videos, and he says how he would improve them. One from his contrarian era, one from his current vulnerable-story era, and one Hyve paid ad he wrote and runs himself.

Placed at slot 5.11, right after "What makes someone swipe away in the first second?"

# Gift

A pair of handcuffs. He calls his five years at Deloitte golden handcuffs in his own posts, so the object says story.

Where: Amazon same-day or any party store.

Backup: the $2,500 novelty cheque made out to Drew Shaulson, memo line "worth quitting for."

Erinndunne@gmail.com

# Guest Info

Erin Dunne. Private chef inside the MrBeast ecosystem, competitive bodybuilder, Hyrox competitor, and a fitness creator on the side. Based in Greenville, North Carolina. Charlie met her playing pickleball.

Charlie's brief: she was previously private chef for Mack Hopkins and is now Jimmy Donaldson's direct private chef. She trains for her own competitions on top of the job, has worked with top coaches including Austin Curry, and has a lot of schedule flexibility. The chef job is her main income; the content is the side.

The arc, in order:

Numbers

⚠️ Her public footprint is almost nothing. Name searches return other people. The Instagram handle is confirmed only because it matches the email on this page. No follower count, no competition placing, no employment detail is independently checkable. Treat every figure as on-tape verification, exactly like the Sam Chaban page.

⚠️ The NDA question is the single most important thing on this page, and it has to be answered before filming, not during. She works for a private individual with a large legal team, and the draft questions that came in with the brief asked her to disclose her employer's salary, the contents of his fridge, foods he refuses, and dishes he has sent back. Those are not questions she can safely answer, and asking them on camera puts her job in front of our episode. Charlie needs to ask her directly, off camera, what she is cleared to talk about, and the answer gets written into this toggle before the shoot.

⚠️ Do not put a salary figure, a private detail about a named third party, or an unverified competition claim in a title, a thumbnail or a description.

⚠️ Tone rule. The chef job is the hook, but the episode is not "assistant to a famous man." She is an athlete and an operator who happens to have the most interesting kitchen in America. At least one section exists purely so she gets to be the best thing in the room on her own terms.

The through-line for this episode: she feeds the person whose entire business is attention, she competes at a level almost nobody in this audience will reach, and she does both in a town nobody would look for either in.

# Brainstorm

Ranked. Angle 1 is the recommended spine, the rest are segments hanging off it. Proof pulled from Velio.

# Titles

# Questions

# Addictd.ai integration (placed in the questions)

Three of her own posts from @erinndunne, and she says how she would improve them. Ideally one training video, one day-in-the-life and one food video so they are three different shapes.

Placed at slot 7.3, right after the swipe-away question.

⚠️ Charlie still needs to get the three links from her, or permission to pick them off the account, before the shoot. This is the one thing that can kill the segment.

# Gift

A proper chef's knife. A Japanese gyuto, 8 inch. Chefs are sentimental about exactly one object and it is this.

# Notes

# Guest Info

Evan Rama. Co-founder and CEO of CRSHMARKET, "the world's first livestream prediction market."

LOCKED Aug 18: one guest, one chair. The co-founder is not coming. Everything on this page that assumed two people in the room has been rewritten for Evan alone.

Charlie's brief: super chill, New York based, markets the company hard on LinkedIn. The co-founder is the more particular one and is not a strong public speaker, so his questions are short, concrete, and about decisions he actually made.

The arc, in order:

Numbers

⚠️ Revenue is unverified. Charlie's brief says revenue is "starting to get strong." No figure exists anywhere public. Do not put a number in a title, a description or a thumbnail unless he says it on tape.

⚠️ The word "gambling." Charlie's brief calls it a gambling platform. The company calls it a prediction market. Ask him straight which word he uses, on tape, before any title leans on "gambling."

⚠️ Competitive context worth having in the room: Polymarket announced a partnership with livestreaming platform Parti.com on March 27, 2026 — pinned live markets above streams and a creator revenue-share Earn Program. That is the incumbent doing his exact idea. It is the sharpest question on the page.

⚠️ Tone rule. The dating show has been written up snidely in student press. It is not the punchline. It is the origin of the whole thesis and that is how it gets treated on camera.

Second brief (Aug 18, 2026). Recorded without Charlie, from memory, after the original recording failed to save. Treat every line here as unconfirmed.

The through-line for this episode: he figured out that an audience will not just watch, they will put money on what happens next — and he figured it out running a $100 split-or-steal bit in a college auditorium before he ever wrote a line of product code.

# Brainstorm

Ranked. Angle 1 is the recommended spine, the rest are segments hanging off it. Proof pulled from Velio.

# Titles (pre-film, superseded by Titles below)

Chosen angle: the casino inside the livestream (angle 1), with the jester origin as the identity arm.

Bench: We Raised $800,000 To Let People Bet On Streamers. The raise is public and verified (TradedVC, Jul 7, 2026), so it is safe to say — but $800K is a small number for a money arm. Only run it if the tape produces no usable revenue figure and the legality arm dies.

# Questions

Rewritten Aug 18 for a viewer who has never heard of him. Every question introduces the fact it depends on, in plain words. No company names, no industry terms, nothing that needs an earlier answer to make sense.

# Addictd.ai integration (placed in the questions)

Slot 5.3, immediately after the swipe-away question. Guest scores out of 3, score goes on the running board.

The trio. Three of his own clips, all from the KUPID tour era, posted to the show's own accounts. He knows which ones sold tickets. He has never had a read on which one actually held people. That gap is the segment.

⚠️ Blocked. Nobody on our side has the clip links. Charlie or Blake needs to get three from Evan and hand them to the Addictd team before he sits down. Filming is on the page as today, so this is the item that kills the segment if it slips.

The game:

The rule that makes or breaks it. The retention order must not match the view order. If it does, swap a clip until it does not.

Second beat, and it is the better ad: Channel Analysis. His entire growth problem is creator supply — he has to walk up to streamers and convince them to plug in. Run Channel Analysis live on a streamer he would actually want to sign, one neither he nor the tool has seen. Then ask what it is worth to him per month to know which creators will hold an audience before he pays to onboard them.

Pre-shoot checklist for the Addictd team: scan all three, record drop-off timestamp and flagged label for each, confirm the order twist, screenshot the reads at full resolution, write the loser's fix exactly as the tool phrases it.

LOCKED Aug 18. Build the public-clip version now. The KUPID links have been outstanding since Aug 3 and filming cutoff is Aug 21, so the segment stops waiting on them. He has done a run of podcasts and interviews and posts video heavily on LinkedIn, so three of his own clips exist publicly whether or not he ever sends anything. Pull three, view counts hidden, same game and the same rule: the retention order must not match the view order. Prefer KUPID tour clips if they are public, they carry the most skin for him, then LinkedIn video, then podcast clips.

Upgrade path, not a dependency. If Evan hands over three clips before call time, swap them in. Nobody waits on that, and nobody chases it past the day before the shoot.

Ads variant is now third in line, behind the public clips: two CRSHMARKET ads from the Meta Ads Library, scan verdict must beat the eye test.

# Gift

⚠️ Filming is on this page as today, so lead time is the only thing that matters. Options ranked by whether they can exist by call time.

Update, Aug 18. Filming cutoff on this page is Aug 21, so there is real lead time now, not same-day. The second brief changes the ranking:

Blake to kill the ones he does not want.

# Notes

# Titles

Locked off the filmed tape, both cards. Three arms, three different click psychologies.

Bench, first swap for arm 2: Prediction Market Founder: I Did $10M In Volume In 45 Days (Steal This!) The volume figure is card one [16:38].

What the tape settled, and what it killed. The costume is real and he tells the whole story, but it ran four months, four hours a day, not the six months the old arm 2 asserted. He is 21 and dropped out of UT five months before filming [0:17 to 0:22], both previously flagged as unverified. 27 shows in front of 15,000+ people is his own on-tape figure [8:20]. The first show drew about 450 [25:53]. The $7,500 loan is not on tape and no figure is given: he says his dad gave him "a small loan" after DoorDash funded the first two shows, and that it took twelve months to repay in full [32:44, 33:10]. Nothing supports $4,000 of his own money either. The $800K at a $10M pre-seed is superseded by $3.5M at a $20M cap; the "closer to like 900k now" line off camera [card two 0:18] is the pre-seed and must never be mixed with it. KUPID is alive but demoted: "we just do Cupid more for the fun of it, or see if we can maybe get a small acquisition out of it" [44:59].

# Thumbnails

Idea 1 — face left, text right

Idea 2 — exotic concept

# Hook + Edit Notes

Two cards. The cameras died at [1:12:13] of card one, mid-question, and card two picks up on the restart with a clap sync at [2:11]. Angles may have shifted. Timecodes below are marked C1 and C2.

HOOK (~40 sec)

[INTRIGUE CLIP / PAYOFF]

CLIP (Evan) [C1 1:09:06]: "It doesn't matter what category you fall in. What we're doing is a form of gambling."

[SOCIAL PROOF]

VO (Charlie): "This is Evan Rama. He spent four months on a college campus in a jester costume, and investors just put three and a half million dollars into the app he built instead."

CLIP (Evan) [C1 12:33, spliced]: "Someone from Nigeria. Their average monthly salary is 120 bucks. This guy made five grand in one trade, all profit. He made five years of his salary in like 5 minutes."

[CONTEXT]

VO (Charlie): "The costume was not a bit, because nobody on that campus knew who he was and he had a hundred dollars to his name."

CLIP (Evan) [C1 24:32]: "I bought a jester costume and I wouldn't say a word. I had a mask on. I would stick a QR code on my back. I would do this for 4 hours a day. I would skip class."

CLIP (Evan) [C1 32:33]: "I ended up applying for DoorDash and delivered across the streets of Austin on foot. I ran over 100 miles just delivering food. And that funded the first show."

[SETUP]

VO (Charlie): "In this episode he explains how a show he ran in a college auditorium turned into the thing people put money on,"

CLIP (Evan) [C1 45:43]: "He pitched to me, the shows are great and all, they're not scalable, they won't make you any money."

VO (Charlie): "and exactly what it took to get the first strangers to bet a dollar."

CLIP (Evan) [C1 17:38]: "We started seeding $5 on each side, so there's always some incentive. Even if there's one person trading, you can still win money."

[STAKES / CLOSE]

VO (Charlie): "None of it happens if he doesn't get caught doing something in his last year of high school."

CLIP (Evan) [C1 39:03]: "It was a cheating stunt. I cheated on a test, but I did it in a severe way."

CLIP (Evan) [C1 36:45]: "I had every rec letter from my teachers pulled. All the good ones too."

CLIP (Evan) [C1 43:38]: "If I didn't go to UT, I don't have any of this. So I'm glad I got caught cheating."

(hard cut, into the episode)

Build notes

Rules applied: front-load the gambling admission and the money that pay the arms and the hook, default to conversation order otherwise, welcome opens and never gets cut, CTA on the attention bridge inside the 30 to 40% band, one held payoff (the cheating story, promised in the hook's close), hardest claims in the back half, emotional close, gift last if it exists.

CUT: everything on card one before the welcome, including the drop-out and non-compete chat, the gear talk and the clap run [C1 0:00 to 6:59]; the "attractive kids meaning over 18" exchange and "let's not get the clips" [C1 9:17 to 9:27]; the transition and producer chatter [C1 21:48 to 23:49]; the "people think I'm gay already" run after the kiss [C1 30:44 to 31:57]; the hosts' cheating-at-Harvard tangent [C1 41:00 to 42:11]; the beast aside they ask to have cut [C1 1:00:29]; and the entire dead-camera stretch at the end of card one [C1 1:12:13 to end]. On card two: the pre-roll gear and raise chat including "closer to like 900k now" [C2 0:18], which is the pre-seed and reads as a contradiction against the $3.5M; the camera-recovery and clap sync run [C2 1:44 to 3:07]; every on-camera instruction to the editor [C2 14:30, 14:47 to 15:00, 20:16 to 21:00]; the hosts' own three stories about the engineer, the hometown friend and the blown Discord deal [C2 21:00 to 29:22]; the segment they ask to have cut [C2 53:04 to 53:41]; the Spree tangent [C2 1:09:02 to 1:09:26]; and the "editors suck" aside [C2 30:52]. The welcome stays.

# Guest Info

Owen Nurminen. Founder of Artec (artec.app), a trained-creator network where brands hire UGC creators directly, and of Content Economy (contenteconomy.app), a paid community that trains people to go full-time on UGC and TikTok Shop. He also hosts the Content Economy Podcast. Contact: owen@artec.app. X: @owennurminen, 5,753 followers.

⚠️ Corrections and gaps before anyone says something on camera.

The arc, in his own words (owennurminen.com/story):

Artec, the numbers he publishes

The test he published Aug 23, 2026, the day before we film. "We Ran a Test: Influencers vs UGC. Here's What Converted Best." Same week, same app: he paid an influencer $1,500 flat and ran a UGC creator on a $2 CPM deal. His framing: "One got 5x the views. The other made more money." Freshest and most clippable thing he owns, and almost nobody has read it yet.

The soft spot worth knowing. His own channel, @OwenNurminen, has 2.2K subscribers across 127 videos, and his recent podcast episodes do 85 to 441 views. A man who has driven half a billion views for other people cannot get views for himself. Handled with respect this is the most honest segment on the episode, and it is the exact problem our audience has.

Personality, from X

The through-line for this episode: he is the guy brands quietly call when they need an app to go from nothing to #1 on the App Store, he does it with ordinary people filming on their phones, and he has the receipts to prove UGC beats influencers on the same budget.

# Brainstorm

Ranked. Angle 1 is the recommended spine, the rest hang off it.

Softest close available: he is currently trying to rent an apartment in the West Village for two or three months and has resorted to asking his timeline. A guy who moves 130,000 app users in a day cannot find an apartment. Land the episode there.

Open items to get on tape, none of it public: Artec's actual take rate, what a trained creator gets paid per post, how many of the 13,000 creators are active, whether any of the case-study brands are still clients, and where the $500K number on his card comes from.

# Title targets (pre-film, superseded by Titles below)

Titles lock AFTER filming, off the tape, per the standing rule. These are the three things the interview has to make him say so the title test has something to stand on.

Target A, the test. Get the influencer vs UGC result said out loud as two numbers: what the $1,500 influencer returned and what the $2 CPM creator returned. He wrote it yesterday. Make him say it.

Target B, the App Store. Get "we took an app to number one on the App Store" said plainly, with the creator count and the timeline attached.

Target C, the price. Get a real, current figure for what a nobody with a phone gets paid per video, and what the ceiling is. His own copy says $150 to $5,000.

Bench target: the broken back into pro Fortnite. Only becomes a title if he tells it with real detail.

# Questions

# Gift

The cheapest phone in the store. A prepaid burner, still in the packaging, handed over as the only equipment anyone needs to take an app to number one. His entire business is ordinary people filming on their phones, so the gift proves his own argument back at him.

Where: Walmart, Target or Best Buy. About $30, off the shelf.

Backup: the framed App Store screenshot of GoWish at #1. Screenshot, print, cheap frame, under.

# Addictd.ai integration (placed in the questions)

Three of Owen's own videos, and he says how he would improve them. Pull from his channel @OwenNurminen, 127 videos, or his Content Economy Podcast clips.

Placed at the end of section 5, right after the first-paid-deal question.

Artec creator clips are out. We cannot pull them and we cannot confirm which ones are Artec's work.

# Notes

No voicenote for this episode. Charlie's upload never reached the drop channel. Everything above was built from Owen's own public material (owennurminen.com, artec.app, contenteconomy.app, X, YouTube) on Aug 23, 2026. Fathom has no recordings with Owen in them.

Filming Cutoff is Aug 24 and Filming Booked is still empty. Publish is Sep 13, which also collides with the unnamed Sep 13 slot on Charlie's schedule.

# Titles

Locked off the filmed tape. Three arms, three different click psychologies.

Bench, first swap for arm 3: App Marketing Expert: How to Get Brands To Pay You For Phone Videos Instantly! The tape is skill-heavy enough to earn the how-to arm.

Three claims from the pre-film research do not survive the tape and are out of all packaging. The WHOOP deal is $3,750 a month for five videos at ten thousand followers [4:38], not $23K. The number-one App Store campaign and the fifty-two million view party game are both his co-founder Colin Madden's work, and he says so unprompted [1:02:53, 1:13:55]. The five hundred million view figure is secondhand and he flags it himself on camera [9:18].

# Thumbnails

Idea 1 — face left, text right

Idea 2 — exotic concept

# Hook + Edit Notes

HOOK (~40 sec)

[INTRIGUE CLIP / PAYOFF]

CLIP (Owen) [15:39]: "He has a chess board and he's like, 'Oh, I'm a 42-year-old dad learning how to do social media.' And that's just not true. He's being an actor. He's actually an actor in his full time."

[SOCIAL PROOF]

VO (Charlie): "This is Owen Nurminen. He played Fortnite for money at nineteen, and now a thousand people he trained make the ads that sell you apps."

CLIP (Owen) [1:03:09]: "They sparked that video and they put a ton of paid behind it, and they got like 100,000 users or something in a day."

[CONTEXT]

VO (Charlie): "He is not hiring famous people to do it, so the whole thing runs on strangers he trained himself."

CLIP (Owen) [3:39]: "We have armies of creators that post for different brands and products. In the near future, we'll be branching out to political campaigns."

CLIP (Owen) [16:12]: "When I'm going viral for my own personal brand, I've done I think like a billion views."

[SETUP]

VO (Charlie): "In this episode he explains what a brand will actually pay somebody with no following,"

CLIP (Owen) [20:11]: "We expect creators to do 5 to 10K out of their first month, at least in contracted earnings."

VO (Charlie): "and what happened when he put a fifteen hundred dollar influencer and a nobody on the same app in the same week."

CLIP (Owen) [44:38]: "For an influencer, for like one post, I think they made us like 18 grand. And we paid 1,500 for it."

[STAKES / CLOSE]

VO (Charlie): "He only found any of it because the thing he actually wanted ended on a doctor's table."

CLIP (Owen) [1:16:52]: "I got an MRI and it was a lower back fracture."

CLIP (Owen) [1:17:16]: "I went out and bought a desktop PC, because Fortnite came out like the exact same month. And I was like, if I'm going to be bedridden for six months, I'm going to be the best at this at least."

(hard cut, into the episode)

Build notes

Rules applied: front-load the money and the identity claim that pay the arms and the hook, default to conversation order otherwise, welcome opens and never gets cut, one held payoff (the influencer against the nobody, promised in the hook), hardest claims in the back half, emotional close, gift last if it exists.

CUT: everything before the welcome, including the age chat, the clap sync, the mic-height coaching and the Subway Surfers bit; the Paul Graham and FaZe Banks block-me tangent and the Fortnite one-versus-one callout [39:37 to 42:21]; the hosts' Brawl Stars fake-account and Save the World sub-farming stories [59:32 to 1:01:01]; the Hinge aside [1:01:53]; the six minute Warren Buffett trip to Omaha and the Pepsi CEO story [1:33:40 to 1:40:04], which is the hosts talking and not Owen; the Adam Sandler pickup basketball aside [1:20:00]; and both on-camera instructions to fact check something later. The welcome stays.

# Guest Info

Dillon Latham. 21, born Feb 15 2005. Richmond, Virginia.

The arc, in order:

Numbers

The through-line for this episode: seven years of figuring out attention, then turning it into a company he owns. Most guests in this space are selling advice. He is selling a bottle.

⚠️ Tone rule for this episode. Dillon gets mocked online for the crymaxxing clip and the Cono crashout. Charlie is not doing that. Those moments are treated as evidence that Dillon is willing to test extreme things to see what breaks through, which is a strategy question and it has worked.

# Brainstorm

Ranked. Angle 1 is the recommended spine of the episode, the others are segments that hang off it. All proof pulled from Velio, last 6 months, YouTube Creator Podcasts folder plus the global database.

# Questions

# Addictd.ai integration (placed in the questions)

youtube.com/shorts/C02iLNC7s-k?feature=share

youtube.com/shorts/3wL9wK0jJSU?feature=share

youtube.com/shorts/STvJNNO9SCw?feature=share

# Gift

Baggy Pants

A Shell Necklace Appeared in his original videos but recently he hasn't been wearing one— my guess is he has grown out of that era

Could go with a classy, more mature chain/necklace because he doesn't have any neck jewelry currently but it used to be a big part of his brand.

an upgrade rather than simply a callback.

Backup: a framed timeline of the eras. POV content, self-care, looksmaxxing, Simpletics, streaming, with the year on each.

# Titles

Short-Form Expert: "Going Viral Made Me No Money!" This Did Instead

The 21-Year-Old Who Makes Millions Destroying Your Attention Span

Shorts Genius Shares Everything He Knows (Dillon Latham Interview)

All three arms are paid by the hook inside the first 15 seconds. Hold thumbnails constant across arms or a losing arm proves nothing.

# Edit Notes & Hook

[INTRIGUE CLIP / PAYOFF]

CLIP (Dillon): I got so viral that I couldn't walk outside without getting recognized, and it did not correlate to making me money.

[SOCIAL PROOF]

VO (Charlie): This is Dillon Latham. He's 21 years old, his content has done billions of views, and he's turned them into an 8-figure brand.

CLIP (Dillon): This is my current business, Simpletics, which was one of the top on Amazon, TikTok, just across the board. We have a few hundred thousand customers.

[CONTEXT]

VO (Charlie): And all that attention, he engineered it himself, on purpose, from the very beginning.

CLIP (Dillon): I was extremely delusional. I literally had, like, no question in my mind that I would blow up.

CLIP (Dillon): When I started... I probably got like three million views the same day.

[SETUP]

VO (Charlie): In this episode, he breaks down exactly how he does it. The tricks he uses to make millions of strangers stop and watch,

CLIP (Dillon): A good hook just poses a really hard question in the viewer's mind.

VO (Charlie): and the retention tactics that keep them watching to the end.

CLIP (Dillon): that one word will, like, ruin the video.

[STAKES / CLOSE]

VO (Charlie): And all of it comes from the moment he lost everything.

CLIP (Dillon): getting banned at 400,000 followers. I had 400,000, and I went straight to zero.

CLIP (Dillon): the best thing that has ever happened to me ever in my life.

EDIT ORDER (sections, in order)

Rules: front-load the most interesting and title-relevant material. Flow beats cleverness, default to the order the conversation happened and only lift a section when there's a natural bridge. Always open on the welcome. The CTA (the Scan) lands at 30 to 40%. One held payoff only (the hook's promised loop). Gift always closes.

CUT: pre-roll small talk (Daniel Bitton, Discord, ambition gap), mic and lighting chatter, every "we're green," all coaching from both intermissions except the meta beat in section 10, and the "tell the world who you are" intro. The welcome and handshake STAY, they open the episode after the hook.

# Description

[CTA / LINK]

We sat down with Dillon Latham, who went so viral that he could not walk outside without getting recognized, and he says it made him almost no money. So he built Simpletics, a haircare brand he sells to the audience that watched him grow up, and turned attention into ownership.

In this episode, I get Dillon to break down how he engineers short-form hooks, why retention is the single most important thing he has found for views, and how one wrong word can ruin a video.

He also tells the story of getting banned at 400,000 followers and going straight to zero, and why he calls it the best thing that ever happened to him. Seven years, four eras, and the short-form playbook behind billions of views.

# Thumbnails

# Guest Info

Nate Curtiss. Founder of Viewz.

The arc, in order:

Numbers

The through-line for this episode: he has run every version of YouTube there is. Most guests know one lane. He has tested the whole map.

# Brainstorm

Ranked. Angle 1 is the recommended spine of the episode, the others are segments that hang off it. All proof pulled from Velio, last 6 months, YouTube Creator Podcasts folder plus the global database.

# Titles

# Thumbnails

# Questions

# Addictd.ai integration (placed in the questions)

# Gift

One framed print in thirds. The n8dev smiley, the n8wealth smiley, and the Viewz logo. Black background, black frame, landscape.

Layout: Viewz centered and largest, the two smileys smaller and flanking it. Year under each mark, small. Nothing else on the piece. No title, no caption, no explanation.

Centering Viewz breaks chronology on purpose. Left to right reads as a timeline, which is fine but flat. Viewz in the middle reads as an argument: these two made this one.

Design spec, per Viewz brand:

# Hook + Edit Notes

HOOK

[INTRIGUE CLIP / PAYOFF]

CLIP (Nate): Nobody really knows how the algorithm works.

[SOCIAL PROOF]

VO (Charlie): That's Nate Curtiss. He's 20, and the biggest channels on the internet pay him to run theirs.

CLIP (Nate): We get over 100 million long-form views every single year. I worked on Clavicular's YouTube. I've ran Neil Patel's YouTube. I gained him 100,000 subscribers in four months.

[CONTEXT]

VO (Charlie): So he stopped trying to beat it, and started counting something nobody else counts.

CLIP (Nate): The number one thing that you're optimizing for on YouTube is not CTR. It's not even retention.

CLIP (Nate): A view itself is such vanity.

[SETUP]

VO (Charlie): So he breaks down the whole system, including the part he knows will make people angry,

CLIP (Nate): This will upset a lot of people when I say this

(hard cut, into the episode)

CUT: all pre-roll (clap sync, socks and shoes, the Dylan height exchange), mic and camera chatter, the "tell the world who you are" intro, the NDA and name-drop negotiation ("you can talk about Cole… I'll just say and some others"), the laptop and iPad hunt and every "technical difficulties on the pod," the weekend and crew crosstalk about Ellie and Savannah, all "should we cut this" meta-discussion, the explicit cut request in the Michigan State block ("I'm not gonna share specific… we'll cut it out and edit"), and the CTA outro coaching takes including the Dylan-specific one. The welcome stays.

# Description

[CTA / LINK]

Nate Curtiss has run every version of YouTube there is, from getting paid brand deals at 14 to running channels for creators like Neil Patel and now building Viewz into a $50K per month agency in just a few months. In this episode of The Attention Podcast, he breaks down how he actually thinks about the algorithm, why he optimizes for viewer satisfaction over CTR or retention, and why titles matter far more than thumbnails. He gets into packaging, going viral on purpose, and where AI already does real work inside his agency. Charlie Moroze pulls out the full system, including the parts Nate knows will upset people. If you want to understand how the biggest channels really grow, this conversation is a map of the whole game.